French Election - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.0&return_msg=41943.12"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.21">21–24</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41943.12">French Election</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41943_12_24_10"> <a name="a41943_12"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_12"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 19:33</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 20:43"></span></span> <span class="message_count">12 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.12">41943.12</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.11">41943.11</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "Hooray, only 35% Nazis in France!"</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.12&return_msg=41943.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.12"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_13"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_13"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 20:44</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 22:00"></span></span> <span class="message_count">13 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.13">41943.13</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.12#a41943_12" target="_self">41943.12</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <span class="emoticon e_shock" title=":-O"><span class="e__">:-O</span></span> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.13&return_msg=41943.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.13"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_14"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_14"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 21:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">14 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.14">41943.14</a></div> <div class="message_body"> From across the ocean, it doesn't actually appear to matter all that much who is elected in France. Our news indicates that all real decisions are made in Brussels by non elected representatives. The individual national governments appear to be just rubber stamps, pretending to matter by arguing before voting yes.<br /><br /> Similar to the US, probably 3 or 4 layers of government could be eliminated with no loss of effectiveness.<br /><br /> I am not singling out France, great country, it's just that when I look at it all:<br /> - Democracy<br /> - Republic<br /> - Oligarchy<br /><br /> We all seem to be somewhere between Republic and Oligarchy, rather than in between Democracy and Republic like our "representatives" try to pretend.<br /><br /> Le Pen is more or less correct on a point she made, no matter who was elected, France would be run by a woman. She was thinking A. Merkel, but really it seems to be C. Legarde.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.14&return_msg=41943.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.14"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_15"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_15"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 21:52</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 21:52"></span></span> <span class="message_count">15 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.15">41943.15</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.12#a41943_14" target="_self">41943.14</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "all real decisions are made in Brussels by non elected representatives"<br /><br /> The European Parliament, for instance?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.15&return_msg=41943.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.15"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_16"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_16"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 22:02</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 22:24"></span></span> <span class="message_count">16 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.16">41943.16</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.12#a41943_15" target="_self">41943.15</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.15">GAME-CHANGING INNOVATOR (DSMITHHFX)</a></div> <div class="quote">"all real decisions are made in Brussels by non elected representatives"<br /><br /> The European Parliament, for instance?</div> <p>I am not an expert on EU law. That appears to be one of many EU agencies that wield power over what laws are initiated and passed.<br /><br /> I guess the main point is - if the EU is deciding on the laws, and the national governments have little choice but to implement them, then what is the point of National governments?<br /><br /> Similarly in the US, our President will go to a G-7 meeting, decisions are made there, and the laws get passed both nationally and at a state level. Why do we need these "representatives" if they are are just "taking decisions".<br /><br /> </p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.16&return_msg=41943.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.16"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_17"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_17"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 22:07</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 7 May 2017 22:24"></span></span> <span class="message_count">17 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.17">41943.17</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.12#a41943_15" target="_self">41943.15</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Can't be, those people get elected too. Hmm. Hmmmmmmm. Quite a few Brexiteers seem to struggle with this part, even now. Can't expect it to be any better in California.<br /><br /> I also wonder what qualifies a decision as "real". And if it's still a bad thing given that these countries in the EU have elected people that get to contribute to that decision... probably that's less handy for the likes of Greece. It ain't perfect that's for sure.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.17&return_msg=41943.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.17"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_18"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_18"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 22:10</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 May 2017 11:01"></span></span> <span class="message_count">18 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.18">41943.18</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.12#a41943_14" target="_self">41943.14</a></div> <div class="message_body"> What Smithy said. <br /> <br /> It's a myth that we're ruled by Brussels, but it's nice propaganda for the anti-EU folks. <br /> <br /> All these people in positions of power are elected by the public, or by the people we elect. If we're really not happy about who is representing us we can stand ourselves, we can join a party and campaign for selection. We have these opportunities. And I believe in the UK it is much much less dependent on money than in the US. <br /> <br /> Also, with a direct presidential election, like in France, there's more of a chance of an outsider having a genuine chance of winning. What with not requiring electoral college votes, or constituency MPs (not that we have a president). </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.18&return_msg=41943.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.18"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_19"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_19"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time"> 7 May 2017 22:11</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 May 2017 11:01"></span></span> <span class="message_count">19 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.19">41943.19</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.12#a41943_16" target="_self">41943.16</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It depends on the decision though, surely? If you want in the EU then you have to abide by its (for example) environmental laws, and human rights, and so on. You get to have an input on what those things actually are. If you don't want to, you get out, but then you don't have the same trading privileges. It's not like you just turn up and whoever's got the rotating presidency gets to call the shots. (That's still Germany, France, UKohwaitnotanymore and Spain, right?)<br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.19&return_msg=41943.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.19"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_20"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_20"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Dave!!<span class="message_time"> 8 May 2017 12:39</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 May 2017 11:01"></span></span> <span class="message_count">20 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.20">41943.20</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.12#a41943_14" target="_self">41943.14</a></div> <div class="message_body"> As others have said, the idea that "all real decisions are made in Brussels by non elected representatives" is not true.<br /><br /> In the UK, around 5% of our laws (at present) are EU laws. These mainly cover areas of trade, human rights, etc. The other 95% are purely the responsibility of Britain and our politicians here, similar to in France (although not completely the same as we do have some additional devolved powers in Britain).<br /><br /> Even then, the EU parliament consists of elected politicians from all nations, that's why countries vote for MEPs (Member of the European Parliament). Finally, there are vetoes where countries can reject the implementation of legislation if they disagree with it.<br /><br /> I am simplifying things here a lot, but the idea that rules are forced onto countries without any control is not true. Also, the whole "unelected representatives in Brussels" is the line often trotted out by the anti-EU brigade, but it is simply not true.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 8 May 2017 12:40 by DAVE!!</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.20&return_msg=41943.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.20"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41943_21"></a><div class="message" id="message_41943_21"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time"> 8 May 2017 14:10</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 May 2017 11:01"></span></span> <span class="message_count">21 of 24</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.21">41943.21</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41943.12#a41943_16" target="_self">41943.16</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <a href="https://tehforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41733.19">How soon we forget</a>.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41943.21&return_msg=41943.12" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41943.21"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="41943.22" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>