The US Presidential Election 2016 - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41828.0&return_msg=41828.53"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.1">1–10</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.31">31–40</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.41">41–50</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.51">51–60</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.61">61–70</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.81">81–85</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41828.53">The US Presidential Election 2016</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41828_53_85_10"> <a name="a41828_53"></a><div class="message" id="message_41828_53"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">11 Nov 2016 08:52</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 11 Nov 2016 09:46"></span></span> <span class="message_count">53 of 85</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.53">41828.53</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.51">41828.51</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Exactly, yeah, and yeah it applies to Trump too.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41828.53&return_msg=41828.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41828.53"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41828_54"></a><div class="message" id="message_41828_54"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">13 Nov 2016 20:48</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 14 Nov 2016 09:46"></span></span> <span class="message_count">54 of 85</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.54">41828.54</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.52">41828.52</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Well indeed, I don't try to excuse us of that. I'm just not sure voting to make everything universally worse for all (except, somewhat ironically, the elite top few % generally) is a good answer. To blame things like migrants from places that the aforementioned system has caused to fail (or simply blown it up). I struggle even with applying 'understandable' to it, honestly, and I don't actually see much value in this thing I'm seeing all over the place post-Trump and saw a lot of post-Brexit where we must try to understand and sympathise. That seems to be being done in really shit ways, like putting Le Pen on telly for a soft interview, giving Farage a bit more air time, an opinion column from some white middle-classer saying Trump might not be so bad really, that sort of thing. Fuck it!<br /><br /> I don't buy it at all. People should be grouping together for better change more inclusively, not falling for this fascist shit yet again.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41828.54&return_msg=41828.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41828.54"> <span class="rating">+2/2</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41828_55"></a><div class="message" id="message_41828_55"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">14 Nov 2016 10:08</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 14 Nov 2016 10:35"></span></span> <span class="message_count">55 of 85</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.55">41828.55</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.53#a41828_54" target="_self">41828.54</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Nobody's making that argument though. No one's saying that all of this means that voting Trump/Brexit is in any way good.<br /><br /> It's just not <em>fundamentally</em> worse than what <em>we</em>'ve been doing for decades. People voting in what they mistakenly perceive to be their own self-interest and/or wilfully ignoring the damage the ideology they're validating does to others.<br /><br /> Neoliberal policy has done immense damage to the world, <em>including</em> but definitely not limited to <em>paving the way for Brexit and Trump</em>. We swallowed it because we believed we were getting incremental progress, but we weren't really, not meaningfully. It was ok <em>for us</em>, we were comfortable, but everyone else (besides the wealthy, who were benefiting disproportionately more than us) was getting fucked.<br /><br /> We don't get to be angry at the people who voted Trump/Brexit for being tricked in exactly the same way we've been tricked for the last 60 years just because their racism is slightly less sophisticated than ours (and is really given life by our own complacent acceptance of a decade of racist rhetoric).<br /><br /> We should be angry at the centre-left - labour and the lib dems, for abandoning the only possible counter-narrative. At the media for happily stirring the shit so long as they made money and reducing political discourse to inane, artificially polarised superficial drivel because it made their work easier. At the political class in general for deserting democracy.<br /><br /> And that anger should be directed at the actual enemy, the ones who actually caused all this and who benefit no matter who's in power because <em>all</em> politicians are selling their ideology - the wealthy and big business. If we fight amongst ourselves, they're fucking laughing.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41828.55&return_msg=41828.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41828.55"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41828_56"></a><div class="message" id="message_41828_56"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">14 Nov 2016 10:40</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 15 Nov 2016 07:09"></span></span> <span class="message_count">56 of 85</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.56">41828.56</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.53#a41828_55" target="_self">41828.55</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I AM angry at the centre left! I'm angry with all of it and all of them! But I'm not persuaded that means I should be less pissed off with people going along with it. I don't believe that they're that easily ignorant of what's happening here.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 14 Nov 2016 12:34 by MILKO</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41828.56&return_msg=41828.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41828.56"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41828_57"></a><div class="message" id="message_41828_57"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">14 Nov 2016 10:41</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 15 Nov 2016 07:09"></span></span> <span class="message_count">57 of 85</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.57">41828.57</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.53#a41828_55" target="_self">41828.55</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Righteous!</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41828.57&return_msg=41828.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41828.57"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41828_59"></a><div class="message" id="message_41828_59"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">15 Nov 2016 20:25</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">59 of 85</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.59">41828.59</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot?CMP=share_btn_tw">https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot?CMP=share_btn_tw</a><br /><br /> (agreeing with the Guardian makes me feel a bit <span class="emoticon e_ill" title="(ill)"><span class="e__">(ill)</span></span> )</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41828.59&return_msg=41828.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41828.59"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41828_60"></a><div class="message" id="message_41828_60"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">15 Nov 2016 22:50</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 16 Nov 2016 08:36"></span></span> <span class="message_count">60 of 85</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.60">41828.60</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.53#a41828_59" target="_self">41828.59</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It's Monbiot innit, when he's right, he's pretty good at it. I wonder if his book goes on to explore what he's talking about in the final paragraph at all, because that seems like the hard bit.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41828.60&return_msg=41828.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41828.60"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41828_61"></a><div class="message" id="message_41828_61"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">17 Nov 2016 22:54</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 Nov 2016 08:48"></span></span> <span class="message_count">61 of 85</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.61">41828.61</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.6">41828.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I didn't visit here during the "event" because I figured it would be you lot against me.<br /> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">Is it really just a giant douche vs a turd sandwich? </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41828.61&return_msg=41828.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41828.61"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41828_62"></a><div class="message" id="message_41828_62"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">18 Nov 2016 08:49</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: fixrman <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 18 Nov 2016 11:39"></span></span> <span class="message_count">62 of 85</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.62">41828.62</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41828.53#a41828_61" target="_self">41828.61</a></div> <div class="message_body"> You're probably right there, but it still good to see the opposite view if it's properly justified. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41828.62&return_msg=41828.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41828.62"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="41828.63" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>