Dump Trump - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.0&return_msg=41641.142"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.1">1–10</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.121">121–130</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.131">131–140</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.141">141–150</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.151">151–160</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.201">201–207</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41641.142">Dump Trump</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41641_142_207_10"> <a name="a41641_142"></a><div class="message" id="message_41641_142"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">26 Apr 2016 14:02</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">142 of 207</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.142">41641.142</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I suspect that the real reason that the RNC and some big money donors don't want Trump as President, is that he knows which closets contain the skeletons. I do agree that he mostly likely uses "talk" to move topics in his preferred direction, which is really the primary power of a President.<br /><br /> While I don't necessarily call myself "sold on Trump", it becomes easier to not worry about it when we look at the last 40 years of prior US Presidents, and the leaders of other countries. There have been some pretty mixed quality and policy politicians in just about every country, and most have survived.<br /><br /> The more people bash Trump, the more I think he might be a decent candidate. Of course there are some details which are not ideal, but that is always true of any candidate.<br /><br /> The financial institutions and intelligence community pretty much run the country anyway, so the country is more or less immune to the politicians.<br /><br /> It is so interesting to see how passionate people in other countries are about US Politics. While it is interesting to watch the political process in other countries, I would not imagine actually becoming emotionally involved in foreign elections.<br /><br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.142&return_msg=41641.142" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41641.142"> <span class="rating">-1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41641_143"></a><div class="message" id="message_41641_143"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">26 Apr 2016 14:05</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 28 Apr 2016 05:51"></span></span> <span class="message_count">143 of 207</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.143">41641.143</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.142#a41641_142" target="_self">41641.142</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "he knows which closets contain the skeletons"<br /><br /> How?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.143&return_msg=41641.142" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41641.143"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41641_144"></a><div class="message" id="message_41641_144"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">26 Apr 2016 14:26</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Harry (HARRYN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 28 Apr 2016 05:51"></span></span> <span class="message_count">144 of 207</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.144">41641.144</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.142#a41641_142" target="_self">41641.142</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It's kind of important to pay attention to the USA from outside, since much of the world economy runs on US$ and a seemingly increasingly large part of it gets American bombs dropped on it too, with far-reaching consequences. <br /><br /> Your stated rationale there for increasingly thinking he might be a decent candidate is frankly bizarre, but I'm sure there's more to it.<br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.144&return_msg=41641.142" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41641.144"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41641_145"></a><div class="message" id="message_41641_145"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">26 Apr 2016 15:01</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">145 of 207</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.145">41641.145</a></div> <div class="message_body"> "the real reason that the RNC and some big money donors don't want Trump <s>as President</s> to win the Republican nomination" (FTFY) ... is because if he does, Hillary wins by a landslide, Republicans will be purged from currently-held Congress and the Senate, and their party all but destroyed by bitter infighting.<br /><br /> Some of the biggest 'traditional' Republican donors (e.g. Koch bros) are already making noises about switching their support to Hillary.<br /><br /> So if you want another 'Republican Lite', elect another Clinton.<br /><br /> If Cruz gets the nomination, Hillary wins by a landslide but the Republican Party will survive in a weakened state to fight another election (maybe), with Tea Party nutters (like Cruz) a discredited, spent force.<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 26 Apr 2016 15:08 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.145&return_msg=41641.142" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41641.145"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41641_146"></a><div class="message" id="message_41641_146"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">27 Apr 2016 01:15</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 27 Apr 2016 10:10"></span></span> <span class="message_count">146 of 207</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.146">41641.146</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.142#a41641_145" target="_self">41641.145</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I agree with the rest but I don't think Trump necessarily loses to Clinton in a general. And it's far too far out for polling on that to be relevant.<br /><br /> Both candidates have very high unfavourables and both will motivate people to vote against them. I'm not sure whether apathy at two unlikeable candidates or desire to vote against one or the other would win out.<br /><br /> Trump's demonstrated that his support crosses party lines which Hilary's <em>certainly</em> doesn't. And his support has shown no signs of hitting a ceiling. He also can't be smeared - attacks on him simply don't work (and, particularly from Clinton, would only go to make his anti-establishment narrative, bullshit as it may be, all the more compelling for the fuckwits who do/would vote for him).<br /><br /> I think Trump getting the nomination would tear the party apart. But I'm not certain - the GOP is resilient as all fuck.<br /><br /> But from the party's POV I don't think the problem is that he'd lose the general, it's that he might win. In which situation they'd have a republican president who doesn't really represent <em>any</em> of the republican core beliefs.<br /><br /> I agree that they'd rather lose with Cruz than win with Trump (and rightly so).<br /><br /> Still, the dems are also looking more strained than they have for a long time. There's definitely a desire for an actual progressive candidate and, moreover, for the democrats to be an actual progressive party. And, as you say, totem issues aside, Clinton is really a republican. I wouldn't even say 'lite', particularly on economic and foreign issues.<br /><br /> Also worth bearing in mind: As soon as Sanders is out of the race (which probably won't be long now, sadly), Clinton's going to move back the right. Which makes the Republican's job <em>easier</em> come the general (left leaning independents stay at home (except those who can bring themselves to vote Clinton as an anti-Trump measure) and the GOP are far better at wooing even the soft-right independents).<br /><br /> The dems are kinda shooting themselves in the foot. If Sanders were the nominee then he gets Clinton's support by default (because Clinton's support is party-loyal dems). If Clinton wins I suspect a large proportion of Sanders' support will just melt away - either not voting or voting green/similar. Clinton would be only marginally easier for them to vote for than, say, Kasich.<br /><br /> It's a really interesting election though. In terms of just horse-race entertainment value it's fucking awesome.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.146&return_msg=41641.142" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41641.146"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41641_147"></a><div class="message" id="message_41641_147"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time">27 Apr 2016 06:36</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 27 Apr 2016 07:21"></span></span> <span class="message_count">147 of 207</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.147">41641.147</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.142#a41641_146" target="_self">41641.146</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Urgh - so with the latest results that's Sanders out and (pretty much) Trump in, then. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.147&return_msg=41641.142" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41641.147"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41641_148"></a><div class="message" id="message_41641_148"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">27 Apr 2016 07:21</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 27 Apr 2016 10:07"></span></span> <span class="message_count">148 of 207</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.148">41641.148</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.142#a41641_147" target="_self">41641.147</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Yup <span class="emoticon e_sad" title=":("><span class="e__">:(</span></span></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.148&return_msg=41641.142" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41641.148"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41641_149"></a><div class="message" id="message_41641_149"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">27 Apr 2016 07:25</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 27 Apr 2016 10:07"></span></span> <span class="message_count">149 of 207</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.149">41641.149</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.142#a41641_147" target="_self">41641.147</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I think Sanders will stay in at least until California, possibly to the convention because unlike normal candidates his funding isn't going anywhere anytime soon.<br /><br /> I think he's intending to influence the platform at the convention and also sticking around just in case Clinton gets indicted.<br /><br /> But yeah in terms of winning more delegates before the convention, unless something miraculous happens in California, he's out.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.149&return_msg=41641.142" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41641.149"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41641_150"></a><div class="message" id="message_41641_150"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)<span class="message_time">27 Apr 2016 13:07</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 27 Apr 2016 19:44"></span></span> <span class="message_count">150 of 207</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.150">41641.150</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.142#a41641_146" target="_self">41641.146</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It's been a wild ride and can only get wilder as November approaches.<br /><br /> "Clinton is really a republican. I wouldn't even say 'lite', particularly on economic and foreign issues."<br /><br /> There's never been a lot of daylight between the two establishment parties' respective positions and power bases, especially since Bill Clinton, America's answer to Tony Blair, swept in. I've said it before: the Repugs hate the Clintons for stealing all their 'best' ideas. Dubya was a bit of an outlier and an extremist, but only in the sense that he handed US foreign policy on a silver platter to Dick Cheney, probably because 9-11 scared the hell out of him and he just couldn't face it.<br /><br /> The Sanders campaign has always had a surreal (perhaps even moreso than Trump), rear-view mirror air to it. It never managed to broaden its appeal much beyond a nostalgic-progressive core, and took too much for granted, resulting in serial, egregious blunders that blindly and willfully ceded huge swaths of delegates to Hillary, just so Bernie could continue to be Bernie. I must assume he bears personal responsibility for his campaign's tone-deafness on issues such as gun control and endemic racism. He is truly trapped by a persona well past it's sell-by date, even if college kids just now discovered it, and think it's novel and cute.<br /><br /> Sanders and Trump have both traded on widespread disaffection in the American hinterland first manifested by the tea party, the sense that the 'social contract', such as it was, has been abandoned and the middle class (now have-nots) with it. There's a lot of economic misery and fear afoot. Dangerous times.<br /><br /> And speaking of fear, Clinton has a potent library of Trump's most toxic rants in her back pocket. All Trump has is: she's a woman, and she's a Clinton. I think we'll see how little traction that has outside of rabid conservatives.<br /><br /> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 27 Apr 2016 13:14 by DSMITHHFX</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.150&return_msg=41641.142" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41641.150"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41641_151"></a><div class="message" id="message_41641_151"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Harry (HARRYN)<span class="message_time">28 Apr 2016 06:06</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">151 of 207</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41641.151">41641.151</a></div> <div class="message_body"> It is useful to think about how voters feel vs how party insiders and billionaire funders feel about US political positions.<br /><br /> 1) Hillary<br /> - No matter if you like or dislike her personally or her political positions, she will be nearly impossible for anyone to beat.<br /> - Personally, I think she will be very effective if elected, because she is so well connected.<br /> - The problem I have, is that I dislike her policies. That is not a person dislike, really don't like her positions on things.<br /> - The attacks on her pretty much are ignored by her base, and frankly, most women<br /> - No matter how you shape it, she can draw in women votes from both sides of the aisle, just because she is a woman. <br /> - The are no remaining, nor hardly any even viable men or women in the republican party that can pull in those votes.<br /> - It "might" be possible to swing some women votes toward the republican candidate if the VP choice is a woman<br /> - She will certainly carry left leaning states in the main election, but it will be much harder for her to win key states like OH, MI, FL, and TX.<br /><br /> 2) Sanders<br /> - What you perceive as his "weakness positions", are actually the reasons he has support from the "middle of the road voters", from both parties<br /> - His position on gun rights is far closer to mainstream America thinking than Hillary, and he foolishly backed down on this position, as it was actually one of the the keys to his backing.<br /> - Not everything he said was ideal, especially for someone like me who is more libertarian in thinking, but that is normal.<br /> - In some ways, his appeal crossed over party lines better than most any other candidate.<br /> - He has always had a big, uphill battle to cover against the Clinton stranglehold on the DNC, it is actually amazing that he has gotten this far.<br /> - The real question is - will his backers, who fairly strongly don't like Clinton, be willing to actually vote for Clinton ? I am not so sure. In some ways, they could be more likely moved to back Trump, or stay home.<br /><br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41641.151&return_msg=41641.142" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41641.151"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="41641.152" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>