The natives are getting restless - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.0&return_msg=41190.115"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.1">1–10</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.91">91–100</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.101">101–110</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.111">111–120</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.121">121–130</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.181">181–189</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41190.115">The natives are getting restless</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41190_115_189_10"> <a name="a41190_115"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_115"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: 99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 11:29</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Monsoir (PILOTDAN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 15:27"></span></span> <span class="message_count">115 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.115">41190.115</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.114">41190.114</a></div> <div class="message_body"> No, they just took it upon themselves to run around like headless chickens, and make promises without discussing with those annoying little proles. You know, the likes of <em>you</em>.<br /><br /> David Cameron, to Alex Salmond: "Take me, take me big boy"<br /> Ed Milliband, to Alex Salmond: "Take me, take me big boy"<br /> The guy from the LibDems, to anyone who'd listen: "bock bock bock"</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.115&return_msg=41190.115" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.115"> <span class="rating">-1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_116"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_116"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Linn (INDYLS)<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 12:31</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">116 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.116">41190.116</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Looks like teh voted pretty much as Scotland did. As others have noted, hardly a win when pretty much half the population is left unhappy. Hopefully the powers that be take note.<br /><br /> edit: bah, Jon said the same - I need to read to the end before posting!!!<div class="edit_text">EDITED: 19 Sep 2014 12:32 by INDYLS</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.116&return_msg=41190.115" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.116"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_117"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_117"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 12:31</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: 99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 20:15"></span></span> <span class="message_count">117 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.117">41190.117</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.108">41190.108</a></div> <div class="message_body"> How could you possibly say the all of UK had the right to allow Scotland to secede? That would have decidedly put those favour of independence at a complete and futile disadvantage. Would it have been right to have had a vote in Britain to allow America to dissolve the British rule? I thought it amazing the number of people that <em>were</em> allowed to vote.<br /><br /> I don't see the vote result as a defeat for supporters of independence. This is an historic win for them because the vote was very close. It is a loss for all of the UK however if real change for better Scottish representation does not occur. Not rheteric like we got with Hopey Changy obama, but real progress and real representation for the needs of Scotland.<br /><br /> I am puzzled by this statement by Cameron: <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">PM: We have heard the voice of Scotland - and now the millions of voices of England must not go ignored.</div> What exactly does he mean by that? I could take that a couple of ways. I am sure you have a better handle on it over there; I came in way late in the game.<br /><br /> Thank God that the voice for independence did not require a battle as it did with our American Revolution. The Scots are to be praised for their efforts, a wonderful show of democracy in action. The U.S. and many other united nations ought to look at this as a sign that there ia a need to do better, particularly the United States. Our representatives are doing more in self preservation and for their individual states than they are for the good of Country.<br /><br /> The voter turnout is most impressive. The U.S. has never had voter turnout that high, even though we fought a bloody war for the right to do so. In local elections we are lucky to have 40%, national elections perhaps mid sixties (if our statistics are correct which is doubtful either way). Our voters are apathetic, even during polarised elections such as 2008 and 2012 were; a large percentage likely had no idea what they were voting for. When presented with the opponents platform as their own candidates, many were seen on videos as supportive of the opposite position. they voted for a milestone.<br /><br /> Hail to the Scots! May the vote send a message to the UK that the Scottish have voice and are not afraid to use it.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.117&return_msg=41190.115" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.117"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_118"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_118"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 12:35</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Kenny J (WINGNUTKJ) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 27 Sep 2014 17:48"></span></span> <span class="message_count">118 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.118">41190.118</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.112">41190.112</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">so they obviously want something".</div> And I'd say they better get it. As I said a few moments ago, this should be a wake up call to ALL Republics and Democracies that "united" should actually mean something for everyone involved, not just many or most.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.118&return_msg=41190.115" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.118"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_119"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_119"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 12:39</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: fixrman <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 13:48"></span></span> <span class="message_count">119 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.119">41190.119</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.115#a41190_117" target="_self">41190.117</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Regarding turn out I think it was particularly high for two reasons.<br /><br /> 1. People cared about the result<br /> 2. They knew their vote counted<br /><br /> Such a shame we didn't vote in favour of the Alternative Vote here in the UK. Whilst it wasn't the best form of Proportional Representation it was a step in the right direction in terms of electoral reform.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.119&return_msg=41190.115" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.119"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_120"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_120"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Ken (SHIELDSIT)<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 13:01</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ALL<span class="message_count">120 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.120">41190.120</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Well sheeeeeeiiiiiiittttttt, I was pulling for team yes!</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.120&return_msg=41190.115" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.120"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_121"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_121"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 13:48</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: 99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 20:15"></span></span> <span class="message_count">121 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.121">41190.121</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.108">41190.108</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote">And then you criticise the US democratic process. Odd, no?</div> <p>The U.S. "Democratic" process, for as good as it might be in some respects is exceedingly flawed which is why Lucy crticises it and is quite right in doing so.<br /><br /> Basically in the U.S. we have two kinds of people that are a combination of several factors: voters and non-voters; relatively informed and relatively uninformed; emotional and logical; pro-union (as in labour) and anti-union; and so on.<br /><br /> The categories could be endless and there are commonalities in the combinations that sort of define the typical Democrat and the typical Republican. Where it becomes a problem is when the low information voters use a single issue to define their entire vote. Politicans cater to this and try to appear to be the most appealing to the most number of people on single issues; it isn't as simple as it seems because they have to try to do it in such a way as to not really tip their hand for total support or rejection of a topic. Nobody lays out their entire platform becasue they'd lose votes that way. Then they do as much as they can for themselves to stay in power and try to bribe their constituents with their own tax money in the form of projects.<br /><br /> If we called city inhabitants Democrats in Scotland and suburbanites Republicans in Scotland, that would fairly accurately show how the vote went in America for prezbo. That's why he won, appeal to large population centers. Also, prezbo won much more of the young, idealistic vote (against young idealists voting republican) which is probably similar to the demographic voting for secession. In the Scottish scenario I see their vote as probably more defining and beneficial (potentially) in end results than defeat would indicate. At least I hope so.</p> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.121&return_msg=41190.115" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.121"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_122"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_122"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: JonCooper<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 13:54</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: fixrman <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 14:17"></span></span> <span class="message_count">122 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.122">41190.122</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.115#a41190_117" target="_self">41190.117</a></div> <div class="message_body"> if your wife asked for a separation you wouldn't want to be involved?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.122&return_msg=41190.115" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.122"> <span class="rating">+1/1</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_123"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_123"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 13:59</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: JonCooper <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 14:11"></span></span> <span class="message_count">123 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.123">41190.123</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.115#a41190_122" target="_self">41190.122</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Scotland and the UK isn't a marriage though. I don't really feel like analogies are helpful on this one. </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.123&return_msg=41190.115" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.123"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41190_124"></a><div class="message" id="message_41190_124"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">19 Sep 2014 14:01</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Ken (SHIELDSIT) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 19 Sep 2014 14:41"></span></span> <span class="message_count">124 of 189</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.124">41190.124</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41190.115#a41190_120" target="_self">41190.120</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Idealist, romantic, prick! It is none of your business!<br /><br /> Actually that is how I voted in the poll. The knee jerk reaction is to say yes. But without a full foundation for continuance after the vote and all the ramifications involved it would seem to be more emotional than practical. I think if they work out details in advance of the next vote, perhaps there is success the next time around. Or perhaps if Britain follows through on promises to give more power to Edinburgh, they won't feel the need to have another vote.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41190.124&return_msg=41190.115" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41190.124"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="41190.125" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>