Employment issues ask-me-do - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.0&return_msg=39653.32"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.1">1–10</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.11">11–20</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.21">21–30</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.31">31–40</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.41">41–50</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.121">121–128</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=39653.32">Employment issues ask-me-do</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="39653_32_128_10"> <a name="a39653_32"></a><div class="message" id="message_39653_32"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">28 Jun 2012 22:59</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 28 Jun 2012 23:04"></span></span> <span class="message_count">32 of 128</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.32">39653.32</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.30">39653.30</a></div> <div class="message_body"> There's another thing I'm curious of - is there a legal requirement for a certain number of fire drill per year?<br /> <br /> And if you know it's a drill and refuse to stop working, is there anything that could be done?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.32&return_msg=39653.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39653.32"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39653_33"></a><div class="message" id="message_39653_33"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time">28 Jun 2012 23:04</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 28 Jun 2012 23:14"></span></span> <span class="message_count">33 of 128</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.33">39653.33</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.31">39653.31</a></div> <div class="message_body"> You'd have a decent defence there if they tried to discipline you for under performing. Assuming your performance only went shit during the period work was being done, and would be helped greatly if you'd complained to HR about the distractions etc.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.33&return_msg=39653.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39653.33"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39653_34"></a><div class="message" id="message_39653_34"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time">28 Jun 2012 23:09</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 28 Jun 2012 23:14"></span></span> <span class="message_count">34 of 128</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.34">39653.34</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.32#a39653_32" target="_self">39653.32</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>No a legal requirement for the number, but there are guidelines issued by Firesafe - the number they recommend depends on the type of environment you work in. An office would clearly warrant fewer drills than, say, a manufacturing facility where flammable gasses etc. are in use.</p> <p> </p> <p>If you refused to comply with the drill I'd expect you'd be in breach of contract - the part about complying with any reasonable requests made of you (and no matter what you think, a fire drill is a reasonable request). Whether it was misconduct or gross-misconduct would probably depend on the terms and policies of your employer, but I'd expect gross-misconduct. If you were preventing your employer from carrying out adequate fire safety training, thereby getting them in trouble potentially with the fire brigade, Health & Safety Executive and their insurance companies, they'd definitely have reasonable grounds to sack you.</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.34&return_msg=39653.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39653.34"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39653_35"></a><div class="message" id="message_39653_35"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">28 Jun 2012 23:15</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 28 Jun 2012 23:18"></span></span> <span class="message_count">35 of 128</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.35">39653.35</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.32#a39653_34" target="_self">39653.34</a></div> <div class="message_body"> We tend to have one or two drills a year but far more actual fire alarms each year. To be honest we're not always sure if it's a drill or an actual alarm. Thankfully we have a zoned system with an intermittent alarm when it's elsewhere in the building and we should be ready to leave because it's often just a fuck up or false alarm.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.35&return_msg=39653.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39653.35"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39653_36"></a><div class="message" id="message_39653_36"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: bear baiter (BEARBAITER)<span class="message_time">28 Jun 2012 23:16</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Monsoir (PILOTDAN) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Jun 2012 07:00"></span></span> <span class="message_count">36 of 128</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.36">39653.36</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.6">39653.6</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Only if he's gay!</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.36&return_msg=39653.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39653.36"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39653_37"></a><div class="message" id="message_39653_37"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time">28 Jun 2012 23:31</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Jun 2012 07:22"></span></span> <span class="message_count">37 of 128</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.37">39653.37</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.32#a39653_34" target="_self">39653.34</a></div> <div class="message_body"> You're more fun than Wikipedia. <span class="emoticon e_smile" title=":)"><span class="e__">:)</span></span><br /> <br /> I don't think we had a huge number of drills, but it was still more than I'd expect from an office. Probably necessary due to the high levels of staff turnover in some departments.<br /> <br /> Was always tempted to ignore them (guess it's a good thing I didn't), though I think there was one when a couple of co-workers were doing critical server work and kept going. (Meaning either the floor wasn't cleared properly or they told the wardens what they were doing was too important to interrupt.)<br /> <br /> What we actually had a lot of were just fire alarms ringing when it wasn't a drill (no idea if it was testing it worked, or just incompetent electricians). Initially a few people would stand up and look about, but after a while people just ignored the alarm unless the assorted fire wardens stood up and put their fluorescent jackets on (since they obviously knew when drills were planned).<br /> <br /> Of course, if there had ever been an actual real fire, I guess everyone would assume it was the alarm being tested, and the fire brigade would turn up to an office full of people working away.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.37&return_msg=39653.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39653.37"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39653_38"></a><div class="message" id="message_39653_38"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Serg (NUKKLEAR)<span class="message_time">29 Jun 2012 05:47</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Jun 2012 07:22"></span></span> <span class="message_count">38 of 128</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.38">39653.38</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.1">39653.1</a></div> <div class="message_body"> If I am asked to be available on-call on (say) a Sunday, this obviously means that I can't go anywhere that doesn't have a PC with Internet access etc as I would have to VPN in if I were to be called - does this count as normal working hours due to the restrictions on leaving my house? If not, that's ver' silly.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.38&return_msg=39653.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39653.38"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39653_39"></a><div class="message" id="message_39653_39"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: 99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)<span class="message_time">29 Jun 2012 06:26</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Jun 2012 07:22"></span></span> <span class="message_count">39 of 128</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.39">39653.39</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.27">39653.27</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>It's not his fault, or that of his colleagues, if they have such a camaraderie, and enjoy their work so much that going to work doesn't seem like going to work. </p> <p> </p> <p>I used to feel like that when I was in research. Sometimes. When it's going well, well you just gotta .... know!</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.39&return_msg=39653.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39653.39"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39653_40"></a><div class="message" id="message_39653_40"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time">29 Jun 2012 07:25</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Serg (NUKKLEAR) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Jun 2012 09:02"></span></span> <span class="message_count">40 of 128</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.40">39653.40</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.32#a39653_38" target="_self">39653.38</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>In what regard/for what purpose?</p> <p> </p> <p>Presumably you have a contract clause for on-call duties, with appropriate moneys being paid for it? </p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.40&return_msg=39653.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39653.40"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a39653_41"></a><div class="message" id="message_39653_41"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Serg (NUKKLEAR)<span class="message_time">29 Jun 2012 09:05</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 29 Jun 2012 09:22"></span></span> <span class="message_count">41 of 128</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.41">39653.41</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=39653.32#a39653_40" target="_self">39653.40</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>I don't believe so - this isn't actually for me, it's for t'OH. I don't think there's anything in the contract about on-call duties, and almost certain there's nothing in there about additional remuneration etc. She already works 8 - 18 (with 1h lunch break - does that count as working time?) which is 45h/week excl lunch, if that matters in any way.</p> <p> </p> <p>The purpose of being on-call is because usually there are no issues so it's not deemed necessary to have someone in the office, but on-call cover is desired "just in case". Obviously, if you're on-call then you can't really be unreachable / somewhere without VPN access etc / out getting pissed.</p> <p> </p> <p>Employment law, urgh..</p> <p> </p> <p> </p><div class="edit_text">EDITED: 29 Jun 2012 09:06 by NUKKLEAR</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=39653.41&return_msg=39653.32" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="39653.41"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="39653.42" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>