Google IO / HTML5 Keynote / Wave - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.0&return_msg=36147.46"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.1">1–10</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.21">21–30</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.31">31–40</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.41">41–50</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.51">51–56</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=36147.46">Google IO / HTML5 Keynote / Wave</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="36147_46_56_10"> <a name="a36147_46"></a><div class="message" id="message_36147_46"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Mouse<span class="message_time"> 1 Jun 2009 20:14</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: THERE IS NO GOD BUT (RENDLE) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Jun 2009 04:28"></span></span> <span class="message_count">46 of 56</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.46">36147.46</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.44">36147.44</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>That does help.</p> <p> </p> <p>Dunno, I wouldn't say I'm a Google Fan Boi per se, well maybe a bit... but I do use Gmail, Google Docs, Chrome and Google Calendar. Oh, and their search engine... It seems their shit always works exactly the way I want it to and always makes things easier.</p> <p> </p> <p>And I did get a bit excited when someone at work said, "Michael, there's someone from Google on the phone for you". Alas, they we're just trying to get me to do Adwords.</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.46&return_msg=36147.46" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="36147.46"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a36147_47"></a><div class="message" id="message_36147_47"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: empathy<span class="message_time"> 2 Jun 2009 00:38</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Mouse <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Jun 2009 07:01"></span></span> <span class="message_count">47 of 56</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.47">36147.47</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.46#a36147_46" target="_self">36147.46</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Adwords is good though, you should try it.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.47&return_msg=36147.46" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="36147.47"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a36147_48"></a><div class="message" id="message_36147_48"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Mouse<span class="message_time"> 2 Jun 2009 07:04</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: empathy <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 2 Jun 2009 14:11"></span></span> <span class="message_count">48 of 56</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.48">36147.48</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.46#a36147_47" target="_self">36147.47</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>Hmm, aye maybe. I'm in one of those "We're waiting for the new website" situations.</p> <p> </p> <p>And they wanted to have someone from Google work with me to get the most out of it while committing to spending a little bit more than I could a month at the time.</p> <p> </p> <p>And the industry is very competitive with relatively low margins so need to tread fairly carefully with it like.</p> <p> </p> <p>But yes, when the new website's up I shall have a go.</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.48&return_msg=36147.46" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="36147.48"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a36147_49"></a><div class="message" id="message_36147_49"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Kriv<span class="message_time"> 3 Jun 2009 19:44</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 3 Jun 2009 21:12"></span></span> <span class="message_count">49 of 56</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.49">36147.49</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.38">36147.38</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I have the impression you have posts where you hate the way application X doesn't do what you want and moan even though it's a good standard / feel the need to write your own / moon on a stick.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.49&return_msg=36147.46" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="36147.49"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a36147_50"></a><div class="message" id="message_36147_50"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: 99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)<span class="message_time"> 3 Jun 2009 19:56</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Kriv <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 3 Jun 2009 20:16"></span></span> <span class="message_count">50 of 56</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.50">36147.50</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.46#a36147_49" target="_self">36147.49</a></div> <div class="message_body"> But who wouldn't want the moon on a stick?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.50&return_msg=36147.46" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="36147.50"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a36147_51"></a><div class="message" id="message_36147_51"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time"> 3 Jun 2009 23:02</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Kriv <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Jun 2009 18:36"></span></span> <span class="message_count">51 of 56</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.51">36147.51</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.46#a36147_49" target="_self">36147.49</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <small style="color: #888">(hoping this doesn't come across ranty, because it's not)</small><br /> <br /> I don't moan about good standards, I moan about shit standards, <em>because</em> they're shit.<br /> <br /> Good standards, I happily praise. HTML5 is an obvious example of a standard which I am actively praising - both the stuff in this thread, plus the more code-oriented semantic tags, the stricter definitions of how things should be handled, and so on.<br /> There are still things about HTML5 I would do differently, but on the whole it's good.<br /> <br /> CFML is another thing - the language is currently undergoing standardisation, and as part of that they're fully defining the non-tag script-based syntax, which is an evil horrible syntax which I rarely use, and yet I'm not moaning about them putting it on equal footing with the tag-based syntax, because it makes sense.<br /> <br /> Those are just two examples - there's plenty of others that I'll praise for being good.<br /> <br /> <br /> Unfortunately there is a lot of bad standards and bad software, and - when these impede me - of course I'm going to complain about what is wrong with them. Generally, in the (mostly vain) hope that someone says "what about X, it doesn't do that annoying thing".<br /> <br /> Example here: SVN - it's terrible software. Incredibly slow, due to the really dumb way it is structured (every directory contains a ".svn" directory, which contains several other directories which contain copies of the files plus assorted other things). SVN sucks, and had I not complained about it, I might not have been directed towards Git.<br /> Git is has a sensible simple structure, is super fast, easy to expand, and thus is becoming very popular. It's not perfect, but I enjoy using Git.<br /> <br /> <br /> I wish it was always the case that there was good software already written - I don't want to re-invent wheels all the time; I want to do new and interesting stuff that <em>hasn't</em> already been done.<br /> But when there isn't something good enough, rather than just moaning, I'll sometimes do it myself.<br /> And if I do do something myself, I look for how I can reduce my workload by extending existing stuff, rather than starting from scratch.<br /> <br /> Another example for this bit: ColdFusion's Regular Expression support is pretty average - with most of the more advanced (useful) syntax not being implemented. Since nobody else had bothered, I decided to fix this myself.<br /> However, instead of going and creating an entire regex engine from scratch (which could be a lot of fun), I have simply created a wrapper around the Java regex engine, so that it is as easy to use as CFML functions, but has all of Java's advanced features. More putting a tire around a wheel, I guess.<br /> <br /> And, perhaps most importantly, every time I do create my own software I release it as GPL Free Software (or sometimes BSD license), so that other developers can easily use it, and extend upon it themselves if they want to.<br /> <br /> If more developers released software as GPL (or similar), it would gradually make all software better, and we could start moving software into more interesting directions, rather than having to constantly re-write the same thing over and over.<br /> <br /> <br /> As for the moon on a stick...<br /> It's not <em>actually</em> that often I ask for things that are unreasonable or difficult.<br /> Within the software field, I know pretty much what computers and programmers are (or should be) capable of, and it is frustrating to be using software, only to suddenly have a natural action not occur for no good reason.<br /> It might not seem a natural action to those I complain about it not working right, but that is just a lack of perspective; I rarely try to 'trick' software into doing things!<br /> <br /> When I know that (in well-designed Open software) the change would be a fairly simple bit of code, that annoys me all the more, since a few bad decisions by others render me powerless to fix whatever might be broken.<br /> <br /> <br /> So yeah, I might complain a lot about software and standards, but only when there are things wrong with them in the first place, and I am annoyingly prevented from resolving those problems myself.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.51&return_msg=36147.46" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="36147.51"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a36147_52"></a><div class="message" id="message_36147_52"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: koswix<span class="message_time"> 3 Jun 2009 23:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 3 Jun 2009 23:44"></span></span> <span class="message_count">52 of 56</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.52">36147.52</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.46#a36147_51" target="_self">36147.51</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <p>>>I don't want to re-invent wheels all the time; </p> <p> </p> <p>Why not? wheels are shit. They use half their enegery going backwards, ffs.</p></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.52&return_msg=36147.46" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="36147.52"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a36147_53"></a><div class="message" id="message_36147_53"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Peter (BOUGHTONP)<span class="message_time"> 4 Jun 2009 00:05</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: koswix <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Jun 2009 10:00"></span></span> <span class="message_count">53 of 56</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.53">36147.53</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.46#a36147_52" target="_self">36147.52</a></div> <div class="message_body"> This is true.<br /> <br /> What we need is something where the reverse part is creating energy for the forward part.<br /> <br /> Hmmm....<br /> <br /> <br /> <img src="http://bpsite.net/misc/spring-cars.jpg" /></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.53&return_msg=36147.46" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="36147.53"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a36147_54"></a><div class="message" id="message_36147_54"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Kriv<span class="message_time"> 4 Jun 2009 18:37</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Jun 2009 21:34"></span></span> <span class="message_count">54 of 56</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.54">36147.54</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.46#a36147_51" target="_self">36147.51</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Ranter.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.54&return_msg=36147.46" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="36147.54"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a36147_55"></a><div class="message" id="message_36147_55"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Mal (BAD)<span class="message_time"> 4 Jun 2009 19:41</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Peter (BOUGHTONP) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 4 Jun 2009 21:34"></span></span> <span class="message_count">55 of 56</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.55">36147.55</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=36147.46#a36147_51" target="_self">36147.51</a></div> <div class="message_body"> The best thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.<br /> <br /> <br /> Oh, and SVN >> git <font color="#FFFFFF">(yes I'm feeling antagonistic)</font></div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=36147.55&return_msg=36147.46" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="36147.55"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="36147.56" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>